Is there such a thing as a "gay voice"? Why
do some people "sound gay" but not others? Why are gay voices a
mainstay of pop culture—but also a trigger for anti-gay harassment? You have
probably asked yourself some of these questions in the past but journalist David Thorpe finding himself single again in his mid-forties went
one step further when he thought that his ‘gay voice’ was maybe the root of all
his problems. He set out seeking some
answers and along the way made this rather tender and touching incisive film
about his journey which is also wonderfully hilarious and something that all
gay men can relate too. Recently queerguru sat
down with him and talked (in our very gay voices) about what he discovered.
QG: I thought your movie was a funny exercise in
answering an eternal question that all gay men of a certain age ask
at some time. but it seems like you had a more serious motive tackling
this after you became single again.
DT: It doesn't matter what age you are in
life when you get dumped you tend to do an inventory of your life and maybe of yourself
as you wonder why! You either assume that there is something wrong with
you, or that you have done some dreadful deed. For me this time around it triggered
off a lot of insecurities which of course first get established when
we are young and sisses and get made fun off, which for many of us was
because of our voices. I’ve always been self conscious of
sounding gay and as I say in the film I found myself suddenly really ashamed of
my voice. I couldn't believe that at my age, and after all the work I had done
too be out, and fight for gay rights, that I had still had this shame
about my voice and I wasn't sure if I could get rid of it. I wasn't sure that
I should. I wasn't sure I could change, I want sure if I should.
So it set me on this journey to make this film.
QG: You seem to take the ‘quest’ a lot more seriously than
your friends, did that discourage you?
DT: My friends are lovely and part of the
journey for me was finding out how much they, and my family, loved me as I am.
I think I needed to connect more deeply with them in some way
because I was feeling vulnerable and so that's why I went to them, but despite
their good advice I didn't think they were quite right. I could see
why they were trying to make me feel better about myself, but you cannot snap
your fingers and it just happens.
You have to act and you have to do something. I
felt very strongly that this was a journey that
I needed to go on before I could be happy
with who I was. Whoever that turned out to be.
QG: One of your best friends described this topic as being
like ‘the elephant in the room’ with gay men. Is it because we all share
your fear, or is it more that we just know about how we sound but simply just
don't care?
DT: I think it is an elephant because we are all aware of
the role that effeminacy plays in gay culture and culture at large,
and the voice is one of those markers of gender. We have anxiety
about the way we look at each other. Some men are super evolved and really
comfortable with who they are, but as a community at large I think it’s pretty
easy to spot a fair amount of discomfort with both effeminacy and
misogyny. I love gay people and I've always fought for
gay rights and who we are, but I think there are
conversations left to be had about how we have established our lives and
accepted who we are, wherever we are on the gender spectrum.
QG: Do you think this is a generational
thing because we 40 + gay men didn't have the role models
that younger generations do now?
DT: When I started this I thought maybe it was men like
myself who grew up in the early eighties or even earlier who were
subjected to a kind of stigma and mockery that people coming out today don’t
have to deal with. However I have had young people in their teens write to
me now all the time and say thank you for making this stuff matter as
this is a subject that has really bothered me, or used to bother me and I'm
over it. So even though things are better in a lot of ways, we still have
a long way to go and even in the more liberally places these concepts of gender
and masculinity are still very much in play.
QG: The kid in the film who had been picked on at school
struck me that he had a more relaxed attitude about
it than we would have had. Is that a fair assumption?
DT: I would say yes and no.
Hopefully what you see in that scene is that he does seem to have this
incredible strength but then his mother tells us 'well you know
what he shows you is strength, but I see the pain.'
QG: But our generation didn't show the strength
.....
DT: I think that one of the things I learned
from making the film that men of our generation can do is actually learn how fearless
young people are and if they are so at ease about it, then maybe
I should be too. It’s significant to note that George Takei said he came
out of the closet simply because he saw young people fighting for gay
marriage. There is a lot for us to learn from younger gay guys and vice versa.
QG: You interviewed a whole list of celebrities such as George
Takei, Dan Savage, Margaret Cho, David Sedaris & Tim Gunn etc. How
did you manage to snap them up?
DT: I just asked them, but I also asked a lot
of people who said no too. I cold-called these people as I
also think that is how we should act as being in the gay community. I felt
like I’m gay and they’re gay. They’re potentially interested in this topic,
so why wouldn't I be reaching out to them. There is to some degree a
bond between gay people, and all of them were interested and wanted
to participate. It seems like I got
all these amazing people but in fact there were
a lots of people who said no.
QG: ‘No’ because they were busy or ‘No’ because they
actually had hangs ups about the topic?
DT: I wish I could tell you why some people rejected my
request. Your guess is as good as mine. My sense is that for some it was
just something they were interested in but I think for others it felt maybe too
close. There are some people for whom this topic is just too touchy.
QG: David Sedaris was particularly open about his personal
take on the whole topic.
DT: Yes he was. I think one of the great things
about the film is that you get to see him being really vulnerable. I
thought he was a smarter more famous version of me and to the extent that he
expressed a lot of the things that I feel but he's David Sedaris (and a great
deal wittier). It's important that I
give my spin on things but when people see him talk about his
self consciousness it means more because he is seen as a really
beloved authority on life. He's the butch one even with that voice,
and that alone is a good example of how gay men are. You can always stick
a little knife in there about someone being effeminate.
QG: I can't think of anyone in the UK where I grew up who went to speech therapy as a kid like you did just to lose their
gay overtones.
DT: I can guarantee that they are out there. Every
speech therapist and linguist I spoke to knew of people who had come to them to
deal with this issue.
Initially I just wanted to not sound gay because
I couldn't hide my gayness but by the end of it I did not feel
that need anymore. First I dispelled all these myths and
stigma that gay people have but also I got a connection to that
physical part of me where I previously tried to push away.
QG: Do think it a fair comment of
your cousins and close friends that when you first
came out of the closet that your 'gay voice' appeared?
DT: I certainly think it is fair in the sense
that I was very much suppressing the fact of who I was because most people seem
to agree that there was the sudden campiness or flamboyance in a kind of
aristocratic manner. It's a fairly common story. In the TV program 'Girls' the lead character Hannah encounters her ex boyfriend who
has now come out and she accuses him of adopting a fruity voice. A
lot of gay men have told me that when they first came out they really
exaggerate their gayness, as it is something of a relief/release that they are
finally embracing it.
I didn't grow up knowing any gay people or
even when I first came out in South Carolina so I had to try on all
these different identities and the film recounts those all of them.
I basically had to invent a gay personality after I came out so I
tried on a kind of aristocratic personality and then I tried on a campy gay
voice. When I got to middle age and I found myself alone, I thought 'wait a minute, what kind of gay man am I, what kind of gay do I want to be, and why is
it not working?’ I think it’s the frustration of not knowing who you
are and searching for that authentic self.
QG: Were you upset when your best friends said at the end
of the movie that they didn't spot any difference at all
in your voice after all your attempts to train it?
DT: I was a bit upset at the time. However as I really believe in honesty and authenticity, so I never shied away from those conversations with friends and family with what is happening with my voice and I hope that is something that makes me a relatable character. I felt I was still trying at that point as I was still doing these exercises and they were not working for me. Both linguists told me that only you will really hear a difference. I mean it’s very subjective: some people heard a difference whilst others didn't.
QG: Are you now completely comfortable with your
new voice?
DT: It's not really a new voice, so I call it my new old
real voice!. I will never be 100% confidant but I am
getting very comfortable with it. What is really different for
me now is that I can encourage and coach myself. Ultimately what the film
is about is me not being afraid to speak out loud and not worrying about how
gay I actually sound.
QG: Does the film have a happy end?
Are you still single?
DT: I am single at the moment (laughing) but am not
unhappy about it. I'm jetting the globe doing Screenings right now so
maybe I won't be single for much longer. (laugh)
QG: What do you want and hope people to take away from the
movie?
DT: I would really love it if the movie prompted them to ask questions about themselves and dig into the parts of themselves that they are afraid of. The point of the film is these are the questions that you as a gay man have to ask: and the only path to really understanding yourself is yourself the right questions. I would also love for people who are self-conscious about their voices or being effeminate or being different in some way to maybe have a little more confidence about their differences.
QG: What’s next for the movie?
DT: It’s currently in select movie theaters all over the US and then it will become available on some
global streaming platform. Its exciting as I always wanted to
get this topic into mainstream culture and so I am
really thrilled that it will lay in typical movie theaters. It opened DOC NYC,
which is the biggest documentary festival in the US which was a real honor for
me as a first time filmmaker, and I was thrilled that they put a
gay film at the top of their program.
QG: What’s next for you?
DT: I have some new projects lined up .... too new to talk
about yet ... but meanwhile I will be traveling with this film
for some time .
QG: If there was film about your life
who would play you?
